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(This episode is marked as explicit because of strong language.)
(Background noise might make this episode a challenging listen.)
Episode image is a detail from the cover of Little Miss Hug by Roger Hargreaves, published in 2014 by THOIP; illustration by Adam Hargreaves.
For the 62nd Second Hand Book Factory, Charles Adrian is joined by Gary Powell, who is the manager of a book shop, on the street in Exmouth Market in London. After a wobbly start, they talk about an unlikely liking for sport, the realisation that maybe nobody can give you what you need and the latest addition to a classic collection.
You can find out more about Rachel Kann here.
The Erik mentioned is Erik Patterson, featured in Page One 66.
The Vera mentioned is Vera Chok, longtime friend of the podcast, whose most recent appearance at the time this episode was released, is Page One 52.
The podcast episode featuring Gary’s boyfriend John Walter, which is mentioned in this episode, can be found here.
The Art Of Fielding by Chad Harbach and Little Miss Hug by Roger Hargreaves are also discussed in Page One 177.
This episode has been edited to remove music that is no longer covered by licence for this podcast.
This episode features a jingle written for the podcast by the band Friends Of Friends.
A transcript of this episode is below.
Episode released: 24th June, 2014.
Book listing:
The Art Of Fielding by Chad Harbach
10 For Everything by Rachel Kann
Little Miss Hug by Roger Hargreaves
Links:
Episode transcript:
Gary Powell
Can I swear? Yeah, because John did, didn't he? [indistinct] something. Did he?
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Can you swear? Yes. And in fact, in this episode...
Gary Powell
It's not that I do. It just because if I did, I might go, ‘[gasps]’ [laughs]
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] You totally can. No, you totally can. And in this episode you might as well because there's some swearing in the book that I'm giving you. So it's already going to have an explicit [laughing] rating.
Gary Powell
[speaking over] Okay. It's not like I've got a potty mouth or anything. It's just...
Gary and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Gary Powell
It's just that I know that I might go, ‘Oh shit did I just [indistinct]?’
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Yeah, yeah.
Gary Powell
And that might sound really obvious. So. That's all.
Charles Adrian
No, you can totally swear.
Gary Powell
Okay. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
That's not a problem. Yes, I'd forgotten that John... John was quite potty-mouthed.
Gary Powell
Which he actually is, isn't he? So... [laughs]
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Yes. Okay, so let's go.
Gary Powell
Okay.
Charles Adrian
Hello and welcome to the 84th Page One. No, that's... that was last week. Sorry.
Gary Powell
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
[laughs] Hello and welcome to the 85th Page One. This is the 62nd Second Hand Book Factory. I'm Charles Adrian and a week later I'm still in Exmouth Market in London. Because what I didn't explain to you, Gary, is that I've just finished – oh, no, I did explain that to you... [I've] just finished talking to last week's guest. This week I'm talking to Gary Powell.
Gary Powell
That's right.
Jingle
You're listening to Page One, the book podcast.
Charles Adrian
Hi, Gary.
Gary Powell
Hello.
Charles Adrian
Thanks very much for joining me...
Gary Powell
No problem. No problem.
Charles Adrian
... for this. So how do you describe yourself?
Gary Powell
I suppose if I'm describing myself, first off I'd say what I do. So I manage a bookshop.
Charles Adrian
Right.
Gary Powell
I've worked with books for, like, twelve years now. And before that I managed a record shop for about twelve years before that. So I suppose, all in all, I'm a, kind of, like, a retail manager. I don't like the term ‘manager’ because I don't... I wouldn't say I don't like the managing but the fun part is the music and the books, kind of. The staff are great. And when they're great, they are great. But sometimes when they're hard, they're hard work. So. But. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah, yeah. Well, managing people is a very difficult thing to do, isn't it?
Gary Powell
Yeah, I think it puts a lot of people off as well. Especially, like, for me when we're trying to find supervisors and stuff like that through all of the different shops and things in various places I've worked, finding people that will go from [sic] the next level – from being the basic bookseller or music seller to the manager or supervisor – sometimes it's quite hard. And sometimes people just don't think of it as an option, kind of. And I wouldn't necessarily say I thought of it as an option. I just drifted into it after school. I wanted to work in a record shop. It was what I wanted to do – and I did. I got a job at the council as well and it really... it broke my mom's heart when I turned it down.
Charles Adrian
Oh! That's a solid job, that. [laughs]
Gary Powell
I know. I think that's what she wanted. She wanted me to be, kind of, like, safe and secure like my brother and sister were. So, yeah. The fact that I... That was probably my point of rebellion [laughs] to actually turn down the council and go and work in the record shop. And then it was everything that I wanted it to be because... I don't know. From being really young it was all about music. I loved. Like, I had... I remember when I got my first cassette player – my radio cassette player – for my ninth birthday and I think I got, like, a record player for my... I think it was my twelfth or thirteenth or something like that. So. And I remember all the first records I bought and... You know, music always reminds me of where I was when I heard it and certain things. So.
Charles Adrian
Because I was going ask how transferable... You know, you say you're a retail manager. It... presumably it does matter what it is that you're selling.
Gary Powell
Definitely. Definitely. Because I used to be one of the managers at Borders on Oxford Street – the really big flagship store.
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Gary Powell
I got made redundant when they closed that branch down. And I got another job straight away and that was managing a furniture store. And I thought, ‘Great. It's another job. Straight into something. Let's go.’ And it was awful. It was really bad. Because selling books is so much different than selling furniture. Because selling furniture is about features and benefits of... what... ‘This armchair: What are the features? What are the benefits?’ And then how you sell that to somebody. Whereas selling a book to somebody is a lot different. It's about how it affects you, your response to it and that kind of thing. So. And. I don't know, it's more fun as well selling books. And music was as well. So, yeah, that didn't work out at all. Like, I left it after about six months? And, yeah, I hated it so I left that. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Good choice, I think.
Gary Powell
Yeah. Yes.
Charles Adrian
Oh, and so... yeah. So you are the first person, I think, I've interviewed or – [self-mocking] interviewed – I've had on my podcast who works in books in that capacity. I mean, I've had people who write but I've never had people who sell books and obviously that's a massive part of the whole process.
Gary Powell
Absolutely.
Charles Adrian
It's really lacking in my stable of podcast guests.
Gary Powell
[laughs] That's why you jumped on me.
Charles Adrian
I did jump on you.
Gary Powell
Well, not literally. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Well but... [laughs]
Gary Powell
[indistinct]
Charles Adrian
[indistinct] Yeah, but even as soon as I interviewed John, your boyfriend, and he said, ‘Oh, Gary's... you know, Gary's... he works in a bookshop’. And I was like, ‘Oh. Oh! Oh, well then.’
Gary Powell
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
And when we met the other... it was a... it was a couple of months ago... No. When...? Months ago.
Gary Powell
It was about six weeks ago, wasn't it? Something like that.
Charles Adrian
Yeah. I thought, ‘Yeah, good chance. Good opportunity.’ And what's the book that you brought that you like? I mean, I'm expecting you to bring some pretty good books. [laughs]
Gary Powell
Well, you see, that's the flip side of it as well. When people... When you say to people that you work in a bookshop, they expect you to be this so literary, well-rounded person and, you know, with all these really in-depth, obscure things.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] [laughing] Yeah, it's really unfair.
Gary Powell
And in some ways I'm not that guy. You know, I've not been to university. I've not had to study texts and all that kind of stuff. So I think that is, in some ways, why I was really good at Borders because it was very mainstream and High Street. Now I'm at Foyles… Foyles has that reputation of being really studious and stuff but the store I'm in at St Pancras is fast-moving and it's very much High Street. So that's why I fit in there very well. So a lot of what I read tends to be just, like, popular fiction. I love a good crime novel.
Charles Adrian
Oh, yeah, okay.
Gary Powell
Although they're few and far... they're really hard to find nowadays because they all just blur into one another anyway.
Charles Adrian
Right.
Gary Powell
I haven't brought your crime novel anyway. So I've brought is this one, The Art of Fielding by Chad Harbach.
Charles Adrian
[interested] Okay.
Gary Powell
I don't know if you're familiar with it or you've read it or anything.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] No. No.
Gary Powell
I read that about two years ago. This isn't my copy because I gave mine away already...
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Gary Powell
... because I tend to do that when I've read something really good. I'll get excited about it and give it away anyway. But it's about... It's set in America. It's all, kind of, like, college years and stuff. And it's about this young guy who, from his little middle[-American] town, he's spotted as a shortstop fielder in baseball. Now for me when I was at school I used to love... I was no good at any of the sport apart from rounders, which is the nearest thing. Like, boys hardly ever played rounders anyway.
Charles Adrian
No. They weren't really allowed to much, were they?
Gary Powell
No. And at first I was a little bit put off by reading it just because it was, like, a sport novel. But it isn't that at all. And it's about... There's probably six characters in it and it's just all about them at this university, where he's taken on scholarship to university. It's the guy that spots them – this, kind of, elder guy that's at the university. In ‘school years’ elder guy.
Charles Adrian
Oh, yes, okay.
Gary Powell
Yeah, he's higher up in school years. He spots him and thinks he'd be great for the team. So he gets him there. It's the school Dean, his daughter, the roommate of the main guy, Henry Skrimshander.... They've got cool names as well.
Charles Adrian
That's an amazing name.
Gary Powell
Yeah. And it's just really, like, the five or six of them. It's how the year goes on. And he's spotted as this great talent in years. But then he feels the pressure of having to have this perfect score of the season. And as it's getting closer and closer to the end of the season he falls apart. And it's just... Everyone else has fallen apart in some way as well. So. And it's brilliant. It was so easy to read. I was, like I say, hesitant about reading it because it's, like, a sport novel. And I'm not sporty. Not at all.
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Yeah.
Gary Powell
[laughs] And... But it's not really about all that and I think having read some, like, John Irving and stuff like that, it's a lot like that. And it's just easy to read. It's quite funny. It's quite light but then it's still quite serious as well.
Charles Adrian
Okay, read us the first page.
Gary Powell
Sure.
Charles Adrian
We'll get a taste of it.
Gary Powell
Schwartz didn't notice the kid during the game. Or rather, he noticed only what everyone else did — that he was the smallest player on the field, a scrawny novelty of a shortstop, quick of foot but weak with the bat. Only after the game ended, when the kid returned to the sun-scorched diamond to take extra grounders, did Schwartz see the grace that shaped Henry's every move.
This was the second Sunday in August, just before Schwartz's sophomore year at Westish College, that little school in the crook of the baseball glove that is Wisconsin. He'd spent the summer in Chicago, his hometown, and his Legion team had just beaten a bunch of farmboys from South Dakota in the semifinals of a no-name tournament. The few dozen people in the stands clapped mildly as the last out was made. Schwartz, who'd been weak with heat cramps all day, tossed his catcher's mask aside and hazarded a few unsteady steps towards the dugout. Dizzy, he gave up and sank down to the dirt, let his huge aching back relax against the chain-link fence. It was technically evening, but the sun still beat down wickedly. He'd caught five games since Friday night, roasting like a beetle in the [sic] black catcher's gear.
Charles Adrian
Nice. Yeah. It does sound very sport-heavy.
Gary Powell
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
I like the comparison of Wisconsin to a baseball glove. That's... That's... very on point.
Gary Powell
[speaking over] Yes, I was going to say it's a while since I've read that. So reading that again then was kind of like, ‘Oh. I'd forgotten that.’ [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Okay, now I'm going to play the first track that I've chosen from your selection. And I feel like I've done you a little disservice because I've picked two tracks that are similar and in fact you gave me a really nicely varied list.
Gary Powell
Okay. That's what I tried when I was doing as well. I got really carried away I could have given you for like twenty or thirty easily.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah, no, and you've given me a very good [laughs]... I can imagine. I can imagine. But I've picked two that... Well this one I've picked because I just didn't know it and I really like it. It's the ABBA track.
Gary Powell
Oh. Brilliant. Okay.
Charles Adrian
And I thought I knew everything that ABBA had made but this... I really love it! This is...
Gary Powell
I know. It's amazing.
Charles Adrian
... Hole In Your Soul.
Gary Powell
Yup. [laughs]
Music
[Hole In Your Soul by ABBA]
Gary Powell
... this year. It's forty years since they won the Eurovision.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh! Forty years!
Gary Powell
One of the reps that I deal with, she knows that I was a big fan and I'd told her that story before. So she got me an invite to this big launch at the Tate Modern.
Charles Adrian
Oh right. Oh, I think... yeah, it was when I saw you...
Gary Powell
And I think it was... it was... Björn and Frida were there. She'd, kind of, hinted that all four were going to be there – which was... sent me crazy – but it was only two of them. But that was still enough. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Wow. So that was ABBA with Hole In Your Soul. Now, it's time for the book that I'm going to give to you.
Gary Powell
Okay.
Charles Adrian
And I thought to myself, ‘Well, I should give you a book that you can't get in a bookshop...
Gary Powell
[laughs] Okay.
Charles Adrian
... or at least that you can't get at Foyles at the moment’. So this is a book... I'm pretty sure I crowd-funded it. Not single-handedly but I contributed to the crowdfunding of this book. And it's somebody... She's called Rachel Kann and she's a friend of somebody called Erik... [laughing] Now it's... it's gone out of my head... That's embarrassing.
Gary Powell
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Erik... What's your name Erik? He was a guest on my podcast a little while ago. Patterson! Who is a wonderful playwright. And he is somebody that I know through Vera, who came to dinner when I came... went to dinner at your flat. So that's the, kind of, connection. That's how I came across Rachel Kann. And this is a book… It's called 10 For Everything. It's a colll... It's half short stories and half poetry. And it's very... It's very light. And it's very energetic. And it's, kind of... it's just... it's... There's a lot of emotional pain going on here and acting out of emotional pain. And I feel like, in many ways, a lot of these stories – and the poetry as well – it feels like how I would behave if I allowed myself to.
Gary Powell
[laughs] [indistinct]
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Because a lot of the feelings that she's describing in this book are feelings that I have. And it's a lot to do with, kind of, feeling... this... this, kind of... It's a lot about insecurity and the need for love and an inability to... to... yeah, fix on somebody who can give you what you need.
Gary Powell
Okay?
Charles Adrian
Perhaps there is nobody who can give you need.
Gary Powell
Yeah, yeah.
Charles Adrian
Okay, so this is the first page. DISAPPEARING. It's the first story.
Charles Adrian
You need some old-school juju. Some Houdini shit. Pre-Houdini shit. Hell, pre-magick-with-a-k type shit. Some shit in Aramaic. You need to poof... disappear. And tonight, as you lose your shit in Frank's bathroom, you may not be Catholic, but your god sure as hell is. You are bent over the dirtyish porcelain, puking your guts out.
Except that you aren't really, you're just pretending to. You are a master of illusion. More often than not, you find yourself mid-hoax before you've even consciously decided to go through with it. So you're retching and whimpering, pouring a glass of water in the toilet for that extra splash of truth. You are pray-conjuring for a knock on the door, which finally comes.
“Nita, Nita, seriously, you're freaking me out. Are you ok?”
“I'm fucking aces,” you warble, trying to sound as martyrish as humanly possible. You want him to see how much...
And then the next three... four or five lines are: ‘... this is tearing you apart.’ On the next page.
Gary Powell
Okay.
Charles Adrian
That should all have been read with some kind of American accent but...
Gary Powell
No, that was good with yours.
Charles Adrian
So, yeah, they all have that, kind of, pace. And it's always, kind of, ripping yourself apart. I love it. I think it's very beautiful. And I need to buy... I feel a bit bad giving you this because it was... you know, it was... It's got a beautiful heart in the front and an ‘R’. And it came with a lovely note from Rachel. So I think I need to try and buy a new copy to replace this. But I think it's in a good cause that I'm giving you this.
Gary Powell
Okay.
Charles Adrian
And I hope you enjoy it.
Gary Powell
Brilliant. Thank you. No, I think I will.
Charles Adrian
And, obviously, if you can persuade Foyles to stock it.
Gary Powell
Yeah, well, that's how it works as well. Because John introduced me to one of his friends, Louise Welsh...
Charles Adrian
Oh, yes?
Gary Powell
... who... She's an author and she's really successful. And that's fine. That's great.
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Yes.
Gary Powell
And then I... She sent me a proof of her new book. And I'd not read any of her other things. She sent me a proof of her new one. I read it. I thought, ‘Right, I'm going to do this’. So I ordered it in. We made a little display on one of our units and stuff. And she came in when she was in London. She signed it. She was really pleased.
Charles Adrian
Oh wow!
Gary Powell
We've sold the most in the company as well of it. And it's just that kind of thing.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh superb.
Gary Powell
It's a good thing with Foyles compared to being with somewhere like some of the... well, like Borders was for me. I'm not sure how Waterstones is now because it keeps changing. It's very much my store so I can decide what I do there...
Charles Adrian
That's really nice.
Gary Powell
... and that kind of thing. So there are things that I ... you can really spot and really take advantage of so...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Gary Powell
Yeah, so that's definitely the kind of way.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh well, fingers crossed!
Gary Powell
Yeah.
Gary and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
And what's the book that you've brought for me?
Gary Powell
[laughs] This is really going to make you laugh.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Gary Powell
Because this is... Literally, talking in that way that... how I'm able to spot things that I think will do really well. This is my biggest success at the store at the moment, okay? It came out on the 8th of May.
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Gary Powell
I've already sold approaching two hundred copies. We're selling about fifteen a day.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Gary Powell
And it is the new Mr. Man book.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Gary Powell
It's Little Miss Hug.
Charles Adrian
Oh amazing! Because I actually have...
Gary Powell
Because...
Charles Adrian
... I have a whole collection of Little Miss books but I won't have this one.
Gary Powell
No. No. Because it's not very often that they publish a new Mr. Man book or Little Miss.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] No!
Gary Powell
The last Mr. Man book was Mr. Nobody, which kind of breaks my heart when you see that one because it's really sad. But this one came out and I knew when I saw this in The Bookseller – the trade magazine – that this was coming out, I knew that at St Pancras we could do really big things with this.
Charles Adrian
Oh. Yes.
Gary Powell
So I approached the publisher, Egmont, and said, ‘I want to make a [big] deal out of this in the window. Can you do something?’ And they made me a big show card and they sent some stickers and some colouring in sheets that we can give away free. I went fairly lar... I went above our central order. Because all new titles are centrally ordered first and then we see how they're going from there. I went above the central order and ordered in loads and, yeah, we've... The company itself, I think, has sold somewhere around two hundred and twenty and just under two hundred of those are just from my shop.
Charles Adrian
Amazing.
Gary Powell
So the other branches haven't really caught onto it.
Charles Adrian
They haven't pushed that.
Gary Powell
It is.... Yeah, it's from my choice to push it. But also knowing that my market will respond to it as well.
Charles Adrian
Yes. Yes.
Gary Powell
So yeah.
Charles Adrian
Oh! Can you... Can you read me [laughing] the first page?
Gary Powell
[laughing] Certainly.
Charles Adrian
If we have time. [laughs]
Gary Powell
It might take a while.
Gary and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Gary Powell
Have you ever fallen over and hurt yourself?
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Gary Powell
I bet you have.
Charles Adrian
Yes I have.
Gary Powell
And then have you wished that someone would come along and give you a hug and make you feel better?
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes. Yes I did.
Gary Powell
Well, Little Miss Hug is just that person.
Like the time she found Little Miss Tiny after she had fallen off the kerb.
Charles Adrian
Oh no! Poor Little Miss Tiny! [laughs]
Gary Powell
That's a cliff-hanger. That's page one with a cliff-hanger. Already.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] That is totally a cliff-hanger. Oh that is wonderful. And she has very fashionable little ballet shoes on.
Gary Powell
Yeah yep. And she has, like, an app as well. So the sticker says. So she has gone up in the world.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh my word. ‘FREE INTERACTIVE APP’.
Gary Powell
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
Oh wow. That is so exciting. Thank you so much.
Gary Powell
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
I will add that to my collection.
Gary Powell
[speaking over] Brilliant. Good.
Charles Adrian
Thank you so much. And this has been lovely, Gary. Thanks for coming and talking to me.
Gary Powell
No problem. I've enjoyed it.
Charles Adrian
I'm going to play the second track that I've chosen from your list. And this is Summer Rain by Belinda Carlisle. And I've chosen this because you and John were...
Gary Powell
Amazing.
Charles Adrian
... at her concert the other day.
Gary Powell
Yeah, yeah. I bought the tickets, like, a year ago because I am, like, a big fan. And I wasn't a big fan when she was around – like, in the late 80s – but I don't know what it is that's grown in me.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Gary Powell
Because she hasn't carried on making music. She hasn't put a new album out for a long time. I think the last one she did was in French as well.
Charles Adrian
Oh really? Interesting.
Gary Powell
But, yeah, there's just something about the songs and her voice. So when I saw last year that she was doing this tour I went straight away and bought the tickets and got, like, second row on the balcony and stuff like that. So they were really good seats. I was a bit disappointed in the end that being on the balcony, though, meant that we were sat down. Because I could see everybody downstairs was dancing and getting crazy. And upstairs was a bit too mannered. It was just being, you know, like at a pantomime.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Gary Powell
Everyone was clapping and stuff. And I was like, ‘Get up!’ So yeah. But it was, it was amazing. She looked amazing. She's got cheekbones like wing mirrors. Still. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh wow. Wow. And this... And you were telling me... While we were listening to the ABBA track you were telling me that you also saw ABBA in concert.
Gary Powell
Yeah. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
That is quite something.
Gary Powell
That was a real surprise because my mom did that – because I was, like, seven so [laughing] I didn't have any credit cards to go and buy the tickets.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Gary Powell
But, um, she told me we were going to go and see Showaddywaddy...
Charles Adrian
Oh right?
Gary Powell
... which I don't know if you remember them, if you're old enough.
Charles Adrian
[laughing] I remember... I know the name but I don't think I can tell you what they sang.
Gary Powell
[laughs] They were this, like, Teddy Boy Rockabilly kind of band. Really lame kind of thing that used to be on... Well, I'm probably offending people by saying they're lame but they used to be on things like Des O'Connor's show and stuff like that. And she told me we're going to see them and I was excited at that. So when we got there to see it was actually ABBA, it was even better.
Charles Adrian
Amazing. But this... So this is Belinda Carlisle with Summer Rain. Thank you Gary.
Gary Powell
You're welcome.
Jingle
Thank you for listening to Page One. For more information about the podcast please go to pageonepodcast.com.
[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]