Find Page One on APPLE PODCASTS or STITCHER.
Episode image is a detail from the cover of Une Banale Histoire by Anton Checkov, published in 2004 by Gallimard.
On top of Mount Parnitha just outside Athens, with a storm and a dog and some people in the background, Charles Adrian talks to performer Erifili Stefanidou (not to be confused with the other actress of the same name) for the 57th Second Hand Book Factory. They talk about the most famous book in modern Greek, something splenetic by a famous Russian and something sweet by a relatively famous Frenchman.
Correction: When Charles Adrian says “pilote” he means, of course, “Pilate”.
Oscar Et La Dame Rose by Eric-Emmanuel Schmitt is also discussed in Page One 176.
This episode has been edited to remove music that is no longer covered by licence for this podcast.
This episode features a jingle written for the podcast by the band Friends Of Friends.
A transcript for this episode is below.
Episode released: 13th May, 2014.
Book listing:
Life And Adventures Of Alexis Zorbas by Nikos Kazantzakis
Une Banale Histoire by Anton Checkov (trans. Édouard Parayrer)
Oscar Et La Dame Rose by Eric-Emmanuel Schmitt
Links:
Episode transcript:
[transcriber’s note: I did not have access to the Greek edition of βιος και πολιτεια του αλεξη ζορμπα by Νίκος Καζαντζάκης that Erifili reads from just over five minutes into this conversation and, not being a Greek speaker, I have not tried to guess how the sounds might be transcribed. Any assistance with this would be appreciated. Also, it is worth saying that there is the gentle rumble of thunder in the background at various points during this conversation, becoming more insistent toward the end; hence the references to Zeus, Greek god of thunder among other things.]
Charles Adrian
Hello. Charles Adrian here just to say that when I recorded this, the 80th Page One, with my friend Eri we were on holiday and... or I was on holiday at any rate and... so I was feeling quite relaxed and I didn't force Eri to choose some music in advance. Which means that as we come to the points when music is going to happen you'll hear me say, ‘We don't know what it's going to be’. Well, I do now because I've edited the podcast so I'll tell you in advance and then you'll know when the music arrives. So the first track that I'm going to play after about... oh, I can't remember... 8 minutes or 10 minutes or something is called Two. It's by Konstantinos Vita. And the second track, which comes at the end... so that's after about 22 or 23 minutes... and that's called The Park and that's also by Konstantinos Vita. And they're both from his album 2. Yeah, that's probably all you need to know.
Charles Adrian
Shall we go? Are you ready?
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes.
Charles Adrian
Okay. Hello and welcome to the 80th Page One. This is the 57th Second Hand Book Factory. I'm Charles Adrian and I'm here on a mountain outside Athens with Erifili Stefe... Stefan... [laughing] sorry...
Erifili Stefanidou
Stefanidou.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] And here's the jingle.
Jingle
You're listening to Page One, the book podcast.
Charles Adrian
Hi Eri.
Erifili Stefanidou
Hello.
Charles Adrian
I even practised your name and then I got it wrong.
Eri and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
So where exactly are we today?
Erifili Stefanidou
We are in the mountain Parnitha, which is very close to Athens. Apparently it's 2000 metres high.
Charles Adrian
Are we 2000 metres in the air now?
Erifili Stefanidou
I think so yes.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Erifili Stefanidou
And...
Charles Adrian
The view is amazing.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes. It's a bit rainy right now.
Charles Adrian
Unfortunately, yeah. It was very nice earlier. The sun was shining. It's quite cold up here but the sun was very beautiful.
Erifili Stefanidou
And very fresh air. Like, clean. That's a big change coming from Athens, you know.
Charles Adrian
And so Eri... Thank you very much for having me to stay, by the way. It's lovely.
Erifili Stefanidou
It's my pleasure really.
Charles Adrian
It's wonderful to see you. How do you describe yourself?
Erifili Stefanidou
Well... I'm short [laughs].
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Erifili Stefanidou
Dark hair. I guess, kind of a typic Greek face. Greek tempered person. Rather loud, I would say, sometimes. And rather quiet some other times. And I like to think that I'm an artist. In general. Like, mentality of an artist also. Apart from the profession, I mean. Eh voilà.
Charles Adrian
Lovely. That sounds very nice. That's... Yeah, I think I recognise you from that.
Erifili Stefanidou
Ah. Good. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Now, tell me about the book that you brought that you like, which is going to be something exotic for all my non-Greek-speaking listeners, no?
Erifili Stefanidou
Well. Not really because there is a movie who... that was made after this book. I haven't seen it so I can't say if it is really accurate compared to the book. So it is The Life of Zorbas.
Charles Adrian
Oh! Okay. So this is actually the only book that I have heard in the Greek language.
Erifili Stefanidou
[speaking over] Eh voilà. So it is Nikos Kazantzakis is the writer. He's a very famous Greek wri... or I mean, in Greece anyway, very famous. And reading this book I kind of understand why. I don't know about the movie.
Charles Adrian
The movie is the one that's called Zorba the Greek?
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Erifili Stefanidou
So... But the book...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Which I haven't seen, by the way, so I don't know anything about this.
Erifili Stefanidou
I haven't seen it either because I wanted to read the book first. The book is called Life and... kind of Adventures, let's say, of Alex Zorbas. And I don't know. I mean, I haven't finished it guys. So, I mean, I'm kind of in the flow of the book. Not yet finished and having the whole thing. But I think it's a very important book. I kind of doubt it that the movie could really... because it's very deeply philosophical also, I find.
Charles Adrian
Do you think it's important as a Greek person or important in general?
Erifili Stefanidou
In general, I think.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Right.
Erifili Stefanidou
I think, yeah. It's very... The feeling I get is something very deep but simple. You know, like very the essence of things, not something very intellectual. Well, I would like to read you and then explain to you why I like it.
Charles Adrian
Go ahead please.
Erifili Stefanidou
[reads first page of βιος και πολιτεια του αλεξη ζορμπα by Νίκος Καζαντζάκης]
Charles Adrian
Lovely. I just realised that I did tell you before we started that if you wanted to... if you stumbled over something and wanted to repeat you could go back to the beginning of [laughing] the sentence. Now I realise I wouldn't have any idea if you had done that. [laughs]
Erifili Stefanidou
I did, actually. I tried to change it without...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] To save it.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes, without going back.
Charles Adrian
I won't be able to edit it anyway but it sounded gorgeous.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes. I mean, this writer has a very special language. So some people call him... how should I put it in English... language creator, let's say.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Erifili Stefanidou
Because he creates his own words sometimes. Changes some words. So his... the language that he's using is very special. And I think it also... it helps him give what he wants to give to the reader using this language.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Erifili Stefanidou
And in this page what this writer says is that if he had to choose four people that were important for his life... where it's the writer slash the hero of the story, you know? So we don't know if it is...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Okay. Yes. I see.
Erifili Stefanidou
... the writer or not. But the hero of the story is also an intellectual. So it could be Nikos Kazantzakis or someone else. He says that the four people that were very special for him were Homer, Bergson, Nietzsche and Zorbas.
Charles Adrian
Aha. Nice.
Erifili Stefanidou
And although the three previous are like more intellectual and poets or philosophers, Zorbas is the one who has this simple idea about life and everyday wakes up and sees the same things as if he sees it for the first time. So every time he... And he gives a lot of importance in the details. And good food, love, sex, and wine. So it's like the essence of life from a philosopher that is more a practical philosopher. You know I mean? Not intellectual.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes, I do know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah.
Erifili Stefanidou
So it's very exciting for me.
Charles Adrian
Oh lovely. Oh, well maybe I should... I always make fun of a friend of mine who studied Greek. I used to tell her that, ‘How could it take her three years just to read Zorba the Greek, given that that's the only book that...?’ Because she was telling modern Greek and I was like, ‘Come on, there can't be anything more to do once you've read that book’. But now I think maybe [laughing] I should read... maybe I should read this book. It sounds quite interesting.
Erifili Stefanidou
I think it's translated.
Charles Adrian
I'm sure it it. It's the most famous modern Greek book.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yeah. It's true.
Charles Adrian
I think it must be translated. Oh, well thank you so much Eri. That's gorgeous. Now we're going to come on to the first music track, which is still a surprise for both of us because we haven't picked it yet. But it's definitely going to come from this album, is't it?
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes.
Charles Adrian
So tell me what... Who is it by?
Erifili Stefanidou
It's by Konstantinos Vita. It's a Greek contemporary composer. And this album was made for a show that Dimitris Papaioannou directed, which is a very... who is a very famous choreographer in Greece. He's the one who did also the Olympics so maybe you kind of...
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Erifili Stefanidou
... know who it is. And it's beautiful music.
sound
[high, penetrating dog bark]
Charles Adrian
Oh!
Erifili Stefanidou
That was a dog.
Charles Adrian
Yeah. A dog that's not allowed to be inside, apparently. We're in the kind of terrace area. Okay, carry on. [laughing] Sorry.
Erifili Stefanidou
Voilà. So, I think the track that we are going to play after Zorbas is one track with a guitar, which is very nice. I really love it.
Music
[Two by Konstantinos Vita]
Charles Adrian
Okay, so I'm hoping that the dog might have gone inside. Oh no, it's still outside. I think it's either going to...
Erifili Stefanidou
Leave?
Charles Adrian
... calm down or it's going to drive us mad. It's found another window.
Erifili Stefanidou
It's trying to get in. It's crazy.
Charles Adrian
Perhaps we should invite him over here and make a fuss of him.
Erifili Stefanidou
[speaking over] Give him a sweet.
Charles Adrian
He's found an ashtray.
Erifili Stefanidou
Well, I think he decided that he's not going in. So that's good.
Charles Adrian
[laughing] I'm just absolutely fascinated by him. He's got himself stuck on the table.
Erifili Stefanidou
He's on the table guys. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Okay, so that was something by Konstantinos Beta [sic].
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes.
Charles Adrian
How do you pronounce Beta [sic]?
Erifili Stefanidou
Vita.
Charles Adrian
Vita?
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes.
Charles Adrian
Okay. Okay. And now my book for you, which is... it's by Anton Chekhov. But it's a short story and it's translated into French. I don't remember who gave it to me. I think somebody... possibly somebody who stayed in my flat once left it as a present. And I thought you would like it because it's by Chekhov. I thought, ‘Ah, that might be interesting to give to Erifili’. And then I had a little look at it and I realised I had never read it. Originally, I thought, ‘I don't remember it’ and then I realised, ‘No, actually, I haven't ever read it’. I don't know when in his life Chekhov wrote this. I haven't looked. It's probably written somewhere. But it's a very... yeah, melancholy is perhaps one way to describe it. It's more than that. It's splenetic, I think. It's this guy, he's reaching the end of his life and he's very... he's in a very bad temper with people, with things, with his own life, with himself and his body, and he's annoyed with what he's able to do and what he's not able to do. And he's he's thinking a lot about what his life means and what success means. And that's... So as I've been reading it this week in your [laughing] flat I've been thinking it actually is quite a good book to give you because we were talking about this the other day.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes.
Charles Adrian
It's, I think, a really difficult question. And for people like us who are living some kind of artistic life – and you say you would like to describe yourself as an artist or you think you should describe yourself as an artist – it's not that clear. And it's not that clear what it means to be a successful artist. And this guy, he's not at all an artist but he has everything – he has all the trappings of success – and yet he's talking about all of this as if it's meaningless. And so I think the question you're left with is, ‘Well, what then would be successful?’
Erifili Stefanidou
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
But it's a very beautiful little story. It's very nicely told and it is very... it's very suggestive. It leaves lots of questions.
Erifili Stefanidou
And Chekhov is wonderful. I mean, I haven't read this one but I love him as a writer. So it's great. Thank you.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] So. I will read you the first page. It's very short. And [clears throat] I have to try and imagine myself into a French situation.
Erifili Stefanidou
[appreciative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Il existe en Russie un professeur émérite du nom de Nicolaï Stépânovitch, conseiller secret...
And there's a little note at the bottom that says: ‘Conseiller secret: 3ième grade dans la hiérarchie des classes, il confère la noblesse héréditaire.’ Okay?
... et chevalier des ordres de l'Empire. Il a tant de décorations russes ou étrangères que, lorsqu'il les met, les étudiants l'appellent l'iconostase. Ses relations sont des plus aristocratiques ; à tout le moins, il n'y a pas eu en Russie, depuis vingt-cinq à trent ans, de savant illustre qu'il n'ait intimement connu. Aujourd'hui il n'a personne avec qui se lier mais, si on veut parler du passé, la longue liste de ses illustres amis s'achève sur des noms comme...
There we go. Not so much information to go on...
Erifili Stefanidou
Thank you very much.
Charles Adrian
... but it's a...
Erifili Stefanidou
I'm very happy about my book. My new book. Thank you. I have something for you too.
Charles Adrian
Good.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes.
Charles Adrian
I'm looking forward to this.
Erifili Stefanidou
It's a French book.
Charles Adrian
Oh, an actual French book?
Erifili Stefanidou
An actual French book. I don't know if you know about this book. It's Oscar et la Dame Rose by Eric-Emmanuel Schmitt.
Charles Adrian
It was... there was a stage version of it for years in Paris. I never saw it...
Erifili Stefanidou
Good.
Charles Adrian
... but it was always advertised. And I read something else by Eric-Emmanuel Schmitt which I really liked.
Erifili Stefanidou
Which one?
Charles Adrian
Le... L'Évangile Selon Pilote [sic].
Erifili Stefanidou
I don't know that.
Charles Adrian
I liked it when I read it.
Erifili Stefanidou
Well, for me it's one of the best things I've ever read...
Charles Adrian
Oh wow!
Erifili Stefanidou
... this one. Along with the Greek one [indistinct].
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] [affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Erifili Stefanidou
But it's really amazing. I would like to read something and then talk about it. But I want a favour. I mean the first page is half a page. So maybe I could borrow another half?
Charles Adrian
[sighs]
Erifili Stefanidou
Please?
Charles Adrian
Yes. All right.
Eri and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Erifili Stefanidou
Thank you.
Charles Adrian
I feel like Zeus is annoyed about that, actually.
Erifili Stefanidou
You can hear the...
Charles Adrian
I can hear him going [doubtfully] ‘Mmm hmm, no, not sure at all if that is a good plan.’
Eri and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
Oh, I forgot to say we're recording this on Good Friday...
Erifili Stefanidou
Oh yes, it's true.
Charles Adrian
... which is quite a special moment.
Erifili Stefanidou
I mean for the religion and also, I think, for the tradition of Greece.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes. Yes.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes. So later tonight there is a litany.
Charles Adrian
Which I'm looking forward to.
Erifili Stefanidou
So:
Cher Dieu,
Je m'appelle Oscar, j'ai dix ans, j'ai foutu le feu au chat, au chien, à la maison (je crois même que j'ai grillé les poissons rouges) et c'est la première lettre que je t'envoie parce que jusqu'ici, à cause de mes études, j'avais pas le temps.
Je te préviens tout de suite : j'ai horreur d'écrire. Faut vraiment que je sois obligé. Parce qu'écrire c'est guilande, pompon, risette, ruban, et cetera. Ecrire, c'est rien qu'un mensonge qui enjolive. Un truc d'adultes.
La preuve? Tiens, prends le début de ma lettre : « Je m'appelle Oscar, j'ai dix ans, j'ai foutu le feu au chat, au chien, à la maison (je crois même que j'ai grillé les poisons rouges) et c'est la première lettre que je t'envoie parce que jusqu'ici, à cause de mes études, j'avais pas le temps », j'aurais pu aussi bien mettre : « On m'appelle Crâne d'Œf, j'ai l'air d'avoir sept ans, je vis à l'hôpital à cause de mon cancer et je ne t'ai jamais adressé la parole parce que je crois même pas que tu existes. »
Charles Adrian
That's superb. I think... No, you made the right choice.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yes.
Charles Adrian
I love it.
Erifili Stefanidou
It's an amazing book full of humour and feeling and...
Charles Adrian
So for non-French-speakers, he starts off the letter saying, ‘Hi, I'm Oscar, I'm 10 years old...’
Erifili Stefanidou
No, you're right, it's letters to God from a 10-year-old child who's sick.
Charles Adrian
Yes, you find out right at the end of the paragraph that he has cancer and he's in hospital.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
And he hasn't... Yeah. It's not that he hasn't written because he didn't have time, like he said, but he...
Erifili Stefanidou
Exactly.
Charles Adrian
... because he doesn't... even... he's not sure that he believes that God exists. That's really nice. I love it. You get this image of this little boy who's running around kicking the cat and then at the end you realise, no, it's something completely different.
Erifili Stefanidou
Yeah, it's amazing. And for me, what was amazing...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Zeus again joining in. [laughs]
Erifili Stefanidou
Zeus joining in. I would say so. Was that it's written with such an innocence that I could not believe an adult person – as the writer is – could really have... so that he could be able to read this. It's amazing.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh, lovely.
Erifili Stefanidou
I think you will enjoy it very much.
Charles Adrian
Lovely. Thank you so much. And it's also... it's one of these Albin Michel editions, which I have several of because they're so popular in France. And they're these classic... really just white with the writing on the front. I think it's really interesting. There's no attempt to sell it using an image. It's just: this is the writer, this is the name, this is the publisher.
Erifili Stefanidou
Exactly.
Charles Adrian
And then, obviously, on the spine, everything is upside down from my point of view. For some reason in France they write... It's... In England, if you lay the book down so that the cover is face up you can read it on the spine and in France it's the other way round.
Erifili Stefanidou
You're right. I don't know how it is in Greece, though, but let me think. I think I think it would be the same in Greece.
Charles Adrian
Maybe it's something to do with driving on the right.
Erifili Stefanidou
[laughs] Exactly.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Erifili Stefanidou
I didn't want to say [indistinct]. Thank you for mentioning it.
Charles Adrian
Maybe so. Okay, now we have to finish but this has been lovely. Thank you so much.
Erifili Stefanidou
[speaking over] Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Adrian.
Charles Adrian
And now we're going to have the second of our mysterious pieces of music. We'll choose a second track from the album by Konstantinos...
Erifili Stefanidou
Vita.
Charles Adrian
... Vita and somehow magically let you know what that's going to be. Thank you, Eri.
Erifili Stefanidou
Thank you, Adrian.
Music
[The Park by Konstantinos Vita]
[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]