Find Page One on APPLE PODCASTS or STITCHER.
(This episode is marked as explicit because of strong language.)
(Background noise might make this episode a challenging listen.)
Episode image is the podcast logo; photograph by Charles Adrian.
Joining Charles Adrian in the Candid Arts Café near the Angel, Islington, for the 53rd Second Hand Book Factory is writer, performer and clown doctor Anna Tobert. Live on air, they sign the form that puts an end to their dormant theatre company, The Same Person Ltd, and they talk about some things they know a lot about and some things they don’t. The first piece music was Anna’s choice but the choice was made after the podcast was recorded, which is why it was unannounced.
Here is a link to the Nelson Mandela story Charles Adrian talks about.
This episode has been edited to remove music that is no longer covered by licence for this podcast.
This episode features a jingle written for the podcast by the band Friends Of Friends.
A transcript of this episode is below.
Episode released: 1st April, 2014.
Book listing:
The Sea On Our Skin by Madeleine Tobert
A Year In The Merde by Stephen Clarke
Long Walk To Freedom by Nelson Mandela
Links:
Nelson Mandela: An Audio History
Episode transcript:
music
[One Day/Reckoning Song (Wankelmut Remix by Asaf Avidan & The Mojos]
sound
[background noise of conversation, a thump]
Anna Tobert
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
[laughing] You're constructing a whole radio play for us.
Anna Tobert
[laughing] Yes.
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
So are you...? Any questions?
Anna Tobert
No. Ready to rock and roll baby.
Charles Adrian
Good, good, good. Hello and [clears throat] welcome to the [laughing] 75th... I don't know why I put on a silly voice there. [laughs]
Anna Tobert
It was like Kermit The Frog. I quite liked it. [imitating Kermit The Frog] [clears throat] Hello.
Charles Adrian
Hello and welcome to the 75th Page One. This is the 53rd Second Hand Book Factory. I'm Charles Adrian and my guest today is Anna Tobert.
Jingle
You're listening to Page One, the book podcast.
Charles Adrian
Hi, Anna.
Anna Tobert
Hi Adrinks. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
So we're here in... what's this... the Camden Arts Cafe?
Anna Tobert
Yeah. Uh, the Candid Arts Cafe.
Charles Adrian
Oh. Candid Arts Cafe.
Anna Tobert
Candid Arts. Yeah, in Angel.
Charles Adrian
Oh, because we're not... We're not in Camden, we're in Islington.
Anna Tobert
Ooo yeah, okay.
Charles Adrian
Okay, Candid Arts Cafe. It's lovely up here. I've never been up here.
Anna Tobert
There's lots of photos of nude ladies with shells on their bits.
Charles Adrian
Oh, that I hadn't noticed. Okay.
Anna Tobert
Behind us, the angel and the devil having a little... having a little naked rendez-vous.
Charles Adrian
So tell me, Anna... Thanks for meeting me after your long day workshopping.
Anna Tobert
No problem.
Charles Adrian
That's very kind of you. How would you describe yourself?
Anna Tobert
I think... Well, I think, professionally, I am a performer. I'm a clown doctor in hospitals. And I do a bit of writing. And, as a person, I like cycling. I don't like reading very much.
Charles Adrian
That's all right.
Anna Tobert
[speaking over] Sorry about that.
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Anna Tobert
I'm not very good at reading.
Charles Adrian
Do you still have your same bike?
Anna Tobert
No, I had to leave it in Paris. I buried it on the streets of Paris...
Charles Adrian
Aww that's sad.
Anna Tobert
... by chaining it to a lamppost...
Charles Adrian
Okay. The traditional way to...
Anna Tobert
... and I had to get another one. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... leave one's bike somewhere.
Anna Tobert
Well, that's where I found it. So I had to return it from where it came.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh I see. Oh nice.
Anna Tobert
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
But didn't... Why didn't you leave it unchained? And then somebody else could use it.
Anna Tobert
I know. I might go back and unlock it. But then I'm worried that they'll just take it. You know?
Charles Adrian
Yeah, that's what...
Anna Tobert
But it might not go to a good home. I worry about these things. Anyway.
Charles Adrian
Well, to distract you, what is your... What's the book that you like? What have you brought?
Anna Tobert
So. The book that I've brought is The Sea on Our Skin by Madeleine Tobert. Related! It's my sister's first book.
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Anna Tobert
And I actually really love it. It's really... it's really great. So I thought I should bring it and introduce it to you.
Charles Adrian
Yes. Thank you. That's wonderful. That's really exciting. Because I've met Madeleine.
Anna Tobert
You have.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Anna Tobert
And this... Yeah, this is the book that she wrote when she was in Fiji travelling. So it's about the... it's about a South Pacific island and its inhabitants. And I just really like it. I reread it the other day and I cried my eyes out all the way through it. It's really sad. But yet kind of upliftingly sad.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Anna Tobert
So it's about... it's about, essentially, a kind of, you know, a family and how they grow and where they go through life. But it's kind of really sort of sensitively written, I think. I love it. It's really nice.
Charles Adrian
That's wonderful. Why don't you read the first page to us.
Anna Tobert
Okay. One second... Right. The first chapter is THE WEDDING OF IOANE MATETE AND AMALIA HOKO. I'm not sure I pronounced those right. We're going to go with them.
On the morning of the wedding of Ioane Motete and Amalia Hoko, it rained. The clouds that had been waiting, dark and swollen for days, gave in to their impatience and a torrent of water pounded the island. The damp between Ioane's toes made his feet itch and the itch in his feet made him desperate to move on. He was an explorer, not used to staying still. As soon as the wedding – by which he meant the wedding night – was over, he would leave his new bride and set out once more on his travels.
He changed in a stranger's house. He tied a garland of leaves over his sulu, a piece of cloth wrapped like a skirt around his waist; he had not worn one for years. He put on a clean white shirt, which the mud would soak and splatter the moment he stepped outside. He shaved off his beard and examined the skin underneath. It was as brown as his shoulders that saw the sun every day. He frowned. He was not looking forward to the ceremony. Tradition: he'd spent all his adult life trying to avoid tradition. ‘It'll soon be over,’ he said to himself.
He'd been an ocean away when the thought came to him that it was time a man like himself had a wife. He'd decided to return to the island, his island, his first visit in fifteen years. And he'd been right to come to this isolated village, the village of Moana, which he had never visited as a boy. It was on the other side of the island from his home and known for its beautiful women. Ioane had scanned the thatched houses that stretched up from the beach, the rundown little school, the rowing boats bobbing on the water and the girls, who glanced at him with wide eyes. Yes, he'd known then that here he would find a wife. And it had been easy. Temalisi Hoko had met him on the shore and promised him her daughter. The men of the village wouldn't marry her because there was no one to give her away: no father, no brother, no uncle. The village expected her to remain unmarried. Tradition, superstition. Ioane Matete assured her he did not care.
So it kind of starts in the sort of shadow of this... of this character who becomes a sort of patriarch figure and is quite menacing. But he leaves the island and goes away. And it's... it's what he leaves behind and the women and how they sort of interact. And I thought it was just really great because we went to her wedding, which was in Fiji. And I was only there for a week but it's such a tri... you know, it's a clan culture. So there's a chief and everybody has their jobs to do. And when I was there, I really felt like wow, how does any woman... sort of, is okay... you know, how do you live like this? This is crazy. Because it was very much, you know, women are in the home looking after the children and the men would do all the other work. And I thought this book was really great because Madeleine lived out there and really sort of researched it. And these women do come alive and they're very strong and powerful in their own way. And I thought it was great to read that.
Charles Adrian
How beautiful. Thank you.
Anna Tobert
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
Thanks for bringing that and, yeah, say hello to Madeleine [laughing] from me.
Anna Tobert
[laughs] I'll wave on Skype.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] She won't remember who I am. [laughs]
Anna Tobert
Yes she will.
Charles Adrian
Let's... I'm going to play the track that... the first track that I've brought for us.
Anna Tobert
Okay.
Charles Adrian
Now, this is... actually coincidentally, it's...
Anna Tobert
Oh I forgot [indistinct]...
Charles Adrian
... that's all right... I've picked... the first one I picked is from the show that we did together, which is why I met Madeleine because she came to see the show. That's the only time I met her, I think. We went out for an Indian in...
Anna Tobert
Oh yeah, yeah.
Charles Adrian
... Camden High Street. And today is the day when we're going to sign the DS01 form Striking Off Application by a Company to close our company, Anna.
Anna Tobert
The Same Person.
Charles Adrian
Yeah. So this is kind of the end of The Same Person. Not really the end but it's the end of me having to file dormant company reports and stuff like that.
Anna Tobert
[laughs] [speaking over] To be honest, nobody really...
Charles Adrian
They always ask you... like, you have to fill in this thing online and it says ‘How much have you traded this year?’ and I'm always, like, we haven't. What is the...?
Anna Tobert
We haven't done anything for years! [laughs]
Charles Adrian
We haven't done anything. Nothing has ever happened with this company. Why do I have to keep doing this? So we need to sign that, perhaps while this is playing. This is CocoRosie...
Anna Tobert
We should have a stamp.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Do you remember this?
Anna Tobert
Oh yes!
Charles Adrian
With Jesus Loves Me.
Anna Tobert
Oh Jesus... [laughs]
Music
[Jesus Loves Me by CocoRosie]
Charles Adrian
... we call ourselves The Same Person.
Anna Tobert
Because we are the same person. We're identical.
Charles Adrian
I know! In so many ways.
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Anna Tobert
I'm really sad I'm no longer the CEO of a company.
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Anna Tobert
What about you?
Charles Adrian
It's a blow.
Anna Tobert
How will we... like, what we put on our CVs now? We're no longer CEOs.
Charles Adrian
But notice, you didn't describe yourself at the top at the show as CEO of The Same Person.
Anna Tobert
Luckily I didn't else I'd have looked pretty stupid right now.
Charles Adrian
Yeah, well, and in fact you're not... you never were the CEO. We were joint directors of the company.
Anna Tobert
Which is almost the same as being CEO?
Charles Adrian
Similar. Similar.
Anna Tobert
Okay.
Charles Adrian
Without the same kind of pay packet.
Anna Tobert
[laughs] If only we'd had that pay packet.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I never got share options. We... Altogether we're winding up a company...
Anna Tobert
I don't think we should discuss our financial takings on air. You never know. The Same Person might come back.
Charles Adrian
That's true.
Anna Tobert
I've bigged them up... I've bigged it up to a lot of people.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] And you might get to distribute those shares. They were £4 in shares that were undistributed.
Anna Tobert
Ah. Amazing.
Charles Adrian
Those were the assets that we've wound up
Anna Tobert
That's the fringe theatre business for you. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Okay, let me tell you about the book that I've brought for you, Anna.
Anna Tobert
Is it long because I'm scared of a long book.
Charles Adrian
No, it's not long. And I think you'll find it quite easy to read. I've chosen it because I think you'll find it a little bit nostalgic. It's set in Paris. And it's written by an English person who was in Paris.
Anna Tobert
So, similar so far.
Charles Adrian
Similar so far. And it's little bit xenophobic.
Anna Tobert
Oh! [laughing] Not so similar so far. Obviously.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] It's supposed to be humerous. It's quite a fun book but it does get a bit silly.
Anna Tobert
Okay
Charles Adrian
It's A Year in the Merde by Stephen Clarke, which was a big hit. And I think it was also hit in France. So they obviously liked it. It's been badly printed and on the back you'll see they've snipped off the left hand side of the text. [indistinct]
Anna Tobert
That's been so badly printed. How did that ever get printed like that?
Charles Adrian
I don't know. But...
Anna Tobert
I like the leaning Eiffel Tower. Confused. I like that.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] The leaning Eiffel Tower is supposed to represent a penis, I think, with copulating snails on the top. It says on the front: ‘There are a lot of French people who are not at all hypocritical, inefficient, treacherous, intolerant, adulterous or incredibly sexy. They just didn't make it into my book.’ That more or less tells you, I think, what this book is going to be like.
Anna Tobert
[laughs] I love the sound of it.
Charles Adrian
The first page is Never the deux shall meet.
The year does not begin in January. Every French person knows that. Only awkward English-speakers think it starts in January.
The year really begins on the first Monday of September.
This is when Parisians get back to their desks after their month-long holiday and begin working out where they'll go for the mid-term break in November.
It's also when every French project, from a new hairdo to a nuclear power station, gets under way, which is why, at 9am on the first Monday of September, I was standing a hundred yards from the Champs-Élysées watching people kissing.
My good friend Chris told me not to come to France. Great lifestyle, he said, great food, and totally un-politically correct women with great underwear.
But, he warned me, the French are hell to live with. He worked in the London office of a French bank for three years.
“They made all us Brits redundant the day after the...”
Anna Tobert
[gasps] The day after the what?
Charles Adrian
Who knows, Anna? You're going to have to read that.
Anna Tobert
Oh, I love it. Thanks.
Charles Adrian
It is... It's a silly book. But I think you're going to enjoy it.
Anna Tobert
I like silly books.
Charles Adrian
I was a bit nervous about choosing a book for you because I thought if you don't like it, you will also hate me by extension. I think I know you well enough to know that.
Anna Tobert
Yeah, I think that's true.
Charles Adrian
What have you brought - or not brought - for me?
Anna Tobert
Well, I've brought you a book but you're not having it for another month.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Anna Tobert
It's quite a big book and I've only just started it. It is the very famous Long Walk to Freedom by Nelson Mandela. Have you read it yet?
Charles Adrian
No, no.
Anna Tobert
So I was told to read... I think, when I was about 12, Dad got us all a copy of this book. In the family. Everyone got a copy. I think he might have even bribed us to read it. And I never read it, then. And he's like, this is the best book that's ever been written. And now I want to read it before I watch the film. But I think it's going to be extraordinary. It already is and I've only read twenty pages.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Anna Tobert
He was amazing.
Charles Adrian
Yeah. Yeah.
Anna Tobert
And I think it's good to see the little steps of a big person.
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Anna Tobert
It think that's going to be... It's going to be a bit of a task. It's long.
Charles Adrian
How many pages is it?
Anna Tobert
I think it might four hundred.
Charles Adrian
Four hundred pages. Wow.
Anna Tobert
And there are pictures as well so you'll be alright.
Charles Adrian
Okay. I've got a lot of other stuff to read. I don't know if this is going to...
Anna Tobert
[speaking over] No, but you've got to read it.
Charles Adrian
Okay [laughs]
Anna Tobert
I'm giving it to you. You will have it soon.
Charles Adrian
It will go on to my pile.
Anna Tobert
How much do you actually know about Nelson Mandela?
Charles Adrian
Well, I know that... I listened to a podcast about him not that long ago.
Anna Tobert
How long was the podcast, eh? [laughs]
Charles Adrian
It was about half an hour long. But I do know that he was a member of the resistance against apartheid. And that became more and more violent.
Anna Tobert
Yes.
Charles Adrian
And he then went to prison and probably shouldn't have ever gone to prison. And he made a wonderful speech on being sentenced, which lasted for... two hours? Four hours?
Anna Tobert
I haven't got to that part yet. I'm still at the early days. He's just got to school.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] And then he was in prison for a long time. And...
Anna Tobert
True.
Charles Adrian
... there are some people who would say that that was a huge advantage to his cause because most political figures who cause that much excitement only disappoint by their presence. And so the fact that he was absent for so long was very helpful.
Anna Tobert
Interesting. Well, maybe when you've read his words - like, what it felt like to be there for so long - it might balance it out a bit.
Charles Adrian
That's true. It might.
Anna Tobert
[speaking over] Put it in persective.
Charles Adrian
Do you have the book? Can you read us the first page?
Anna Tobert
I don't have the book with me.
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Anna Tobert
I forgot to put it in my bag.
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Anna Tobert
The first page is really good.
Charles Adrian
Can you tell us what's on the first page?
Anna Tobert
Lots of acknowledgments and thanks.
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Anna Tobert
To many people...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] When did he... When did he actually write it?
Anna Tobert
I think he... I think it came out when I was a teenager.
Charles Adrian
So he was... he was presumably released in the 90s.
Anna Tobert
Yes. I'm thinking... He definitely...
Charles Adrian
So it must have come out pretty soon after he was released.
Anna Tobert
I think it came out after he... I don't know. Now I'm talking about something I don't know. I don't know when it came out, actually.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh, that's the other thing that I think was on the podcast, which I found really interesting, was that he was negotiating his freedom with F. D. de Klerk... de Klerk...? What's his name? F. W. de Klerk. I feel so ignorant when I talk about these kind of issues.
Anna Tobert
[laughing] I know.
Charles Adrian
So he was negotiating his freedom...
Anna Tobert
After the book, you'll be able to talk about this.
Charles Adrian
Yeah, I will be able to talk...
Anna Tobert
That's why you've got to read the book.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Well, for a limited period and then it will disappear from my mind again.
Anna Tobert
Yeah. You can then watch the film. We'll test each other.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] Yeah. Exactly. And so de Klerk wanted him freed. There was a point at which he wanted to... I think grant him amnesty, and Mandela kind of wrote back and said: ‘Not unless you fulfil [laughing] these conditions. I'm not prepared to leave jail unless these conditions are met.’ Which is really fantastic. So it was actually quite hard to get him out of jail in the end, because he was like, ‘No, I will set the time table.’
Anna Tobert
That's how you change things.
Charles Adrian
Yeah. And then I think he was instrumental in keeping that transition peaceful. I think that's one of the reasons why people consider him such a great leader.
Anna Tobert
Yeah. Well, in the first twenty pages, you know, all these things come up about how he he starts negotiating tricky situations - even at school or with his head teacher or whatever - and he sort of starts seeing the process. So I think that's quite interesting to see.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes. Yes. Oh, and that's such a... I wish I had that skill. I'm just... I'm useless at confrontation so I don't think I can do negotiation because you have to...
Anna Tobert
Shall we do a roleplay? Confrontation.
Charles Adrian
Quick confrontation.
Anna Tobert
No, I'm not very good confrontation either.
Charles Adrian
I think that's why we had to stop working together...
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
... because neither of us were [sic] any good at that side of the business.
Anna Tobert
And then it was... Yeah.
Charles Adrian
And if we fought with each other I seem to remember there being a lot of silence and terse...
Anna Tobert
There was loads of silence. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
... and terse...
Anna Tobert
Feeling it in the stomach as we sat awkwardly next to each other on the bus.
Anna Tobert
Tight-lipped
Charles Adrian
No, things are going to be fine.
Anna Tobert
[speaking over] No, no, really fine. We'll have the ending your way. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Absolutely fine. We'll do what you want. No, we'lll... I think we'll do your...
Anna and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
Now, this is the end of the podcast. This has been absolutely lovely.
Anna Tobert
Thanks for having me, Adrian.
Charles Adrian
It's been such a pleasure. Thank you, Anna.
Anna Tobert
[speaking over] It's been great to see you.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] It's been lovely to sit down. It's so hard to get hold of you at all.
Anna Tobert
[speaking over] I love staring into your bright blue eyes.
Charles Adrian
Aww. Well, it's been lovely to stare into your beautiful brown eyes.
Anna Tobert
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
As the light fades.
Anna Tobert
And my sweaty brow [indstinct].
Charles Adrian
Have your eyes been sweating [indistinct]?
Anna Tobert
My brow has been sweating.
Charles Adrian
Oh your brow has been sweating. Yes indeed.
Anna Tobert
It's very hot in here.
Charles Adrian
This podcast is going to go out on the 1st of April 2014.
Anna Tobert
Ooo! Well, in that case, let's do an April Fools!
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Anna Tobert
No, I think it's too late.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] What I was going to say was because it's going out on the 1st of April, I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to play April Fools by... [laughs]
Anna Tobert
[speaking over] My name isn't really Anna. My name is something else. Whoever.
Charles Adrian
This is the end of the podcast...
Anna Tobert
Okay. Sorry.
Charles Adrian
... and I'm going to play the music that will play us out. And it's really clever what I've chosen.
Anna Tobert
Is it Rufus Wainwright?
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Anna Tobert
He's your favourite.
Charles Adrian
He's going to play us out with April Fools.
Anna Tobert
Oh that's so clever.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Because this is going out on the 1st of April.
Anna Tobert
So clever.
Charles Adrian
Thanks for joining in with that link. [fading out] That was kind of you.
Music
[April Fools by Rufus Wainwright]
[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]